Increasing cyber and hybrid risks will test the European Union’s system of fragmentation on issues of security but centralisation on financial and other economic issues. This asymmetry was not an obstacle in a world in which security threats were more contained or of a different nature. But the world is changing. But what is a hybrid attack and whose responsibility is it to deal with? Last week Bruegel's Director, Guntram Wolff and Deputy Director Maria Demertzis presented a paper on the subject to ECOFIN, an informal meeting of European finance ministers in Helsinki. In this episode of Bruegel's "Sound of Economics" podcast, Nicholas Barrett sits down with Guntram Wolff to find out.